April 17th, 2008
Get Real: Solicitations
The questions:
Editors: Do you solicit? If so, why? Where do you solicit from? Do you solicit particular stories, or do you just ask good writers to submit stuff? What do the writers say when they’re solicited?
Writers: Have you been solicited? What were the circumstances? Were you glad to be solicited? Has an editor approached you after seeing your work elsewhere, asked you to submit, only to reject you? If so, did this create hard feelings?
The answers:
Digby Beaumont is based in Brighton on the south coast of England. He worked as a nonfiction author for many years, with numerous publications, and his short fiction work has been widely published in magazines, journals, and anthologies.
I have had publishers say “we’d like to see more of your work” or words to that effect. This has happened, for example, when they have accepted a piece I have sent them, or when they have passed on something, and in a couple of cases where I had withdrawn work because it had been taken up elsewhere. I would usually find it encouraging to have them say this, I think, though I am aware that it may be part of some publishers’ standard rejection. I have had editors accept and reject work after asking me to submit. Rejection didn’t create any hard feelings. I can’t really see why it should. I would expect the work to be evaluated by the same criteria whether it had been “solicited” or not. “We’d like to see more” doesn’t mean “We’ll publish any old crap you send us.”
Matt Bell lives in Ann Arbor, MI, with his wife Jessica. His fiction has appeared in magazines such as Hobart, Barrelhouse, Caketrain, and Juked. He is also the Book Review Editor for NewPages.com and can be found on the web at www.mdbell.com.
I’ve been solicited a couple of times, always by newer independent magazines, who obviously have a harder time getting submissions for their early issues. I was glad to be solicited, and I have always sent the editor a story. It feels important to note that I have always sent something that I felt was one of my best available works, no matter what the venue. I would never send a B-list story to any publication, and certainly not to an editor who likes my work. Perhaps because of that, I’ve never had a story that was solicited not get published (although I did have one magazine go under before my story came out). I would not, however, take a solicitation as a promise of an instant acceptance. Editors should take a critical look at any submission, even one they’ve asked for.
I’m no longer a literary magazine editor, but when I worked with SmokeLong Quarterly I regularly solicited work. The first issue I worked there, when I was a guest editor, I solicited perhaps half of what we eventually published. I think that’s probably the case for most magazines, and in some cases the proportion is probably much higher. I don’t really have a problem with this as a writer or an editor, as long as there is still some opportunity for writers to get in from the slush pile. The simple fact is that every editor has writers (both established and emerging) who excite them, and it’s their right to try and get submissions from those writers. And I’m thankful for that–as a writer, wouldn’t you hope that one day you’d have editors who wanted to champion your work, who wanted to expose it to their audience over and over?
At the best magazines, that is always the point of soliciting work: Not getting the biggest names into print, but the best work. We should all be so lucky, both as editors and writers, to be a part of that process.
Fleur Bradley is a crime fiction writer from Colorado. Check out her Web site.
I’ve been solicited before. Usually it was by editor friends who know my writing style, so the acceptance was implied.
It’s nice. It saves saves me time and rejection. But to be honest, I always feel like I’m cheating a little by bypassing the submission process.
Mark Budman is the editor of Vestal Review magazine and the author of My Life at first Try. (Counterpoint, winter 2008)
Yes to all of your questions.
I solicit as an editor, approaching the writers I like. I get solicited as a writer.
When I solicit, I get all kinds of responses: from an instant submission to silence (as if some people follow Groucho Marx’s quip: “I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.”) Yes, sometimes I reject the people I solicit, but I never send a form rejection.
When I submit, responding to a solicitation, I get angry only if I receive a form reply. And when I get angry, I am never silent.
Ramon Collins lives on the NE edge of the Mojave Desert and is often seen running with a pack of scruffy coyotes.
I manage the Micro page on LINNET’S WINGS, a relatively new Irish e-zine (I say “manage” because I’m far too good-looking and humble to be an editor).
I did solicit material for edition one because I wanted a professional start. I asked Mary Miller and Jesse Patrick to submit stories as an indication of what I looked for. Some stories came in “over the transom” that weren’t as refined but I let them stand for a pilot edition. Pepe Nero submitted a solid micro that had a knot in the log but we worked around it.
LW uses four to seven micros (under 400 words) per quarter and I hope word-of-keyboard will bring in submissions. The spring edition is due on April 15 with five excellent stories.
Kathy Fish’s stories are published or forthcoming in Quick Fiction, The Denver Quarterly, Storyglossia, New South, and elsewhere. A collection of her short shorts will appear in a book published by Rose Metal Press at the end of March, 2008.
I’ve had work solicited directly from Zoetrope and I’ve also had work solicited from editors who have read my published stories elsewhere. In one case, I had an editor solicit work for a planned special issue of a magazine. It was to be all women writers, all very short fiction, and featuring Edith Perlman. I was so excited and sent off several pieces. The planned issue never came to fruition though. It was disappointing, but these things happen. And I’ve had other times where solicited work was then turned down. I think it’s just one of those things you have to understand. It’s a great honor to be asked, but don’t expect the work will be automatically accepted. No, it doesn’t create hard feelings for me. Just part of the biz. The worst part is the feeling that you’ve let down an editor who is otherwise enthusiastic about your work.
Vanessa Gebbie is a writer, editor and creative writing teacher.
Editor:
Yes I have solicited work. Not often, but I have, when I saw a piece by chance that fitted what I was looking for.
Writer:
I must be a strange creature. It is flattering to be asked to submit work to a publication I have time for. But I get less of a sense of achievement when it is published. Why? Because it wasn’t weighed in the balance in the same way as other work…it didn’t find its own way out there in the world.
I am also very aware of mates publishing mates… it happens, and means zilch… it may get writers a few credits but in the end your work has to make its own way out there, and being published by mates might not help you in the long run.
On the other hand, it might. The writing world is an unpredictable place.
Alicia Gifford writes short fiction and is currently working on a novel-in-stories. She is the Fiction Editor for the online literary journal Night Train.
As a writer, I’ve been solicited a few times with happy results, and that’s about all I have to say about that.
I haven’t done much soliciting as an editor. At Night Train we rely on the slush. I did some soliciting when I guest-edited at SmokeLong, and it’s great if you ask someone and they send a story and you’re thrilled with it. That’s a beautiful thing. It’s not so pleasant to solicit someone and then you don’t want what they send. It’s one of those many sticky situations inherent in the bidneth that makes me cringe. It did happen that a couple of writers that I solicited sent in several pieces of work that we turned down. You feel bad. Anyone who gets solicited should realize it’s not a sure thing.
I don’t have strong feelings about literary magazines that rely heavily on solicitations. Who cares?
Steve Hansen has had limited success as a writer, having published stories over the past 10 years at FRiGG, The Danforth Review, The Paumanok Review, and a few other online “reviews.” He currently spends his time and energy trying to meld the worlds of high finance, literature, and comic books at www.tqrstories.com.
If I have the time and inclination, I’ll troll the read page of this place for work that trips my trigger. One of the year’s best at our publication came from just such a fishing expedition wherein I landed the great Spanky Jones written by the equally great Hunter Whitcomb. So, yeah, we solicit, and sometimes to great effect. As I recall, Hunter was happy to be solicited.
I had a story solicited by Don Capone for the initial offering of his publishing house, Rebel Press. The book was called Rebellion and I was very happy to be in it with other Zoetropers. I think I bought a box of twenty. Every time I go to the local indie bookstore that I gave 12 copies to on consignment, I’m stymied to see the same 12 copies are still sneering back at me from the shelf. Hmf.
Debbie Ice lives in Connecticut with her husband, two boys, and English bulldog.
Yes, I have been. An editor, or probably the guest editor, of a popular online journal asked for a story he read online. A print editor read a story online and asked me to send them something. An online editor, a few, have read me and asked me to send stuff. (No specific story, just stuff.) An editor saw me read at a tiny reading once and asked me to write him a story after I told him the one I read was already published. I did that. I wrote a story specifically for him and sent it. I was surprised he liked it.
I have a couple of wonderful friends who are editors and liked my stuff and asked for stories. One published one, the other one showed it to the staff and the staff eventually rejected it. I loved how honest she was with me. And completely respected the process.
Obviously it is flattering to be solicited, and as a writer I appreciate an editor making me feel good about my writing. There is not much of that–feeling good–in writing and if a good writer, a good editor, anyone, besides my husband, dog and mama, make me feel good, well, it’s a good thing.
The slush is impossible and you really have to have a foot in the door nowadays. Just the way things are. I do think that too much soliciting soils the business if the SLUSH IS IGNORED. If all that happens is solicitation, or lifting from slush due to hype or connections, then publishing becomes “who do you know.” Which makes it all feel like Washington DC.
The big driving question is this–is the world of art, the one that offers itself to writers not readers, finding the best? Is quality driving art?
If, due to many complex factors, the answer to the above becomes well, not really, then what will a publishing credit mean? When we see publishing credits will we start thinking, right off, not– wow, they must write well– but, instead, I wonder who they know, I wonder where they got their MFA, I wonder what they are like in person–can they effusively flatter, walk lightly, never boldly, over egos (particularly if they are a woman), are they outgoing and, most importantly, I wonder if they are young and gorgeous. We may even stop asking–I wonder what the story was about.
Darby Larson’s fiction has appeared in McSweeney’s Internet Tendency, Opium Magazine, Monkeybicycle, and various other places. His short story, Electroencephalography, published in Greatest Uncommon Denominator, was nominated for a Pushcart Prize. He served as Guest Editor for Smokelong Quarterly’s Issue 8, and also served as Web Editor for a six month stint at Pindeldyboz. He lives in Northern California.
I don’t like the idea of soliciting material, or rather I don’t like that it sometimes seems necessary. I guess the hope is that there will always be enough in the slush to wow editors, but reality is depressing. I’ve solicited authors for material and I’ve also been solicited as an author. I regret the soliciting I did though. It was for a start-up called Quintessence that I was asked to be a part of early on and that I very soon discovered was not going to live up to anything so I quit I think even before the first issue went live. But before I’d quit, I’d solicited from writers who I’d respected in the past and I think it affected their perception of me and my own fiction, that I was naive to even ask, or something. A few did send work that we took and then I felt that much more horrible when I began to see what Quintessence really was, and then I quit, and then Quintessence predictably folded, and so I felt responsible for essentially taking good work from authors I respected and then erasing it from existence. Since then I’ve had a bad taste in my mouth about soliciting others for work for something I happen to be involved in. I’d rather take a mediocre work from the slush and work with an author to edit and find its potential than take something because it has a name on it.
On the other side of it all, I enjoy getting solicitations myself. It’s vindicating because there’s always a part of me that feels like a hack since my literary education has been so autodidactical, so when people ask for my work, I’m like, so you’re saying I’m actually kind of like a writer then? The fact that anyone ever asks me to be an editor is still baffling to me.
Your question about having solicited work rejected, yeah, that’s happened to me, but it almost doesn’t matter. I’d say it’s much worse for the editor who solicited, and I don’t think that’s ever happened to me as an editor. For a writer, or at least for me as a writer, getting solicited by itself is almost as good as being published. I’m very aware of how uncontrollable the conditions are for any particular story to get picked for publication anywhere. Something I learned when I was at Pindeldyboz, dreadful work would come in from authors I’d probably solicited myself because of work I’d read in the past, but rarely is anyone so consistent (myself included). The best you can hope for is someone who delivers a consistent pile of shit that happens to have a few more diamonds embedded inside than anyone else.
Joseph Levens has been published in The Florida Review, Other Voices, Swink, AGNI, New Orleans Review, and other publications. He is the editor of The Summerset Review.
The Summerset Review does not solicit. We would much rather publish good stories by unknowns, than mediocre ones by authors who have rose petals thrown at their feet as they walk. We have, however very rarely, solicited a specific story, simply because we fell so much in love with it, seeing it elsewhere.
Steven J. McDermott is the editor of Storyglossia. His short fiction has appeared in numerous literary journals and in his collection of stories Winter of Different Directions.
Of the 236 stories published in the first 26 issues of Storyglossia only four were solicited. As a general policy I don’t solicit stories, but in those four cases I had been blown away by stories those authors published in other journals, had praised the stories in my blog, and then sent them a link to the blog entry and said I hoped they’d consider submitting to Storyglossia in the future. They were thrilled by the reviews I’d written of their work and were also flattered by the offer to submit, sent good submissions, which I in turn was thrilled to accept. Other writers have written to thank me for reviewing their stories or collections, and I took that occasion to encourage them to submit, but I don’t consider that a solicitation because I encourage everyone who writes me to submit. I want to see a broad spectrum of work so the more submissions the better as far as I’m concerned. Issues 27 and 28 have guest editors, who were given complete editorial autonomy, and I think they each solicited some submissions, but I don’t know how many. I’m fine with the guest editors doing some solicitation because it helps them shape the issue they envision. Otherwise, the quality of submissions has been so high recently, that I’m quite happy to fill entire issues with unsolicited submissions.
Stefani Nellen’s work has appeared or is forthcoming in Inkwell, Apex Digest, Cosmos Magazine, FRiGG, SmokeLong Quarterly, and more. Her stories have been included in Dzanc Books’ Best of the Web 2008 Anthology and shortlisted for the 2008 Fish Short Story Prize. Stefani splits her time between the US and the Netherlands.
One of my stories, “The Attraction of Asphalt,” was solicited by SmokeLong Quarterly after I’d posted it at the zoetrope.com workshop. I remember I was very surprised, and, of course, happy. I sent in a slightly revised version using the feedback I got from the reviewers. Apart from that, I’ve gone the slush route so far.
No, no editor ever solicited something from me only to reject it later (although Apex Digest invited me to revise and resubmit without a guarantee of publication; fortunately the revisions worked for them).
I guess my reaction to such a rejection would depend on the exact circumstances. If the editor made it clear that they can’t promise publication (instead, they’re simply interested in reading my work and don’t want to wait for it to rise through the slush - or not) — well, in that case I would be disappointed but not angry if the editor eventually decided to pass. However, if they claimed to want a particular story of mine for their mag and then end up not publishing it — without any external reasons, such as mag folding, etc. — I would be miffed for a moment or two.
Ellen Parker writes fiction and edits the online literary journal FRiGG: A Magazine of Fiction and Poetry.
As an editor, I do solicit stories that I see posted in the Flash Fiction or Short Stories wing(s) at the Zoetrope Virtual Studio, or in private rooms there. Sometimes I happen upon these stories myself or sometimes a writer I know will say (for example), Hey, have you seen so-and-so’s groovy story posted in the Flash wing?! I also sometimes tell other editors about stories there that might be right for their magazines. So it’s like a whole big slush pile at Zoetrope Virtual Studios and lots of people are wading through it. (This doesn’t mean we see everything posted there, though, or even most of it. If we missed yours, forgive us: we were asleep at the wheel and this is not uncommon, us being asleep.)
Almost always I ask a writer if I can have a specific story that I have read in its entirety at Zoetrope. That way, I know exactly what I’m asking for. I am hesitant to ask a writer to just, you know, maybe someday, if they feel like it, go ahead and submit–just willy-nilly throw something over the transom because I like your style and maybe I’ll take it if you’re lucky and if I’m in a good mood and if it’s a Tuesday. I can see a whollllllle lot of pitfalls lying ahead there. I ain’t going down that road, m’dears—unless I know the writer’s work well and I am almost certain he or she will send something I like. Also, sometimes I see comments a writer makes in a room at Zoetrope and I’ll say to that writer, This would make a good story, or a good nonfiction piece. Would you like to try to write it? Then the writer either says, Hell, no, or else, OK, I’ll try. Then, if the writer needs or wants me to, I’ll work with the writer in developing the piece.
When I ask a writer if I can publish in FRiGG a story I see at Zoetrope, sometimes they say, Gosh, I’m flattered, but I want to try submitting the story to a print magazine. And I understand perfectly. In fact, I am positive the story will get placed in a print magazine because it’s such a good story. Plus, I figure after it appears in print, maybe the writer will let me run it in FRiGG! We do run stories and poems that have appeared in print because, you see, hardly anyone has seen these stories or poems yet. Maybe thirteen people read print literary magazines, and five of them are librarians and seven of them are college professors. Maybe one is an agent’s receptionist.
As a writer, I have been solicited and I loved it! I always said yes. I am very easy. Again, it was always a story that was posted somewhere at Zoetrope (in one of the fiction wings or in a private room), so the editor knew exactly what he or she was asking for. No one has ever just asked me to submit any old story because they’d seen me around and liked my style. I guess I should be insulted. Oh, actually, one guy did. I think this guy was using a fake name. He said he saw my story at Pindeldyboz and would I send him some stories and I eagerly sent him a bunch and he took them all and now I’m sorry because I don’t like his Web site. Why’d I send him those stories? I am so freakin’ easy. See, you shouldn’t always give stuff to people just because they ask you. Those people might have ugly Web sites.
J. M. Patrick lives in Connecticut with a small cactus and a squirrel named Todd. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in SmokeLong Quarterly, The Summerset Review, Night Train, and NOÖ Journal, among others. She can be found online at www.jmpatrick.org.
I’ve had work solicited twice, and it’s a great feeling to cut out all of the ‘waiting-on-the-edge-of-your-seat” of regular submissions . Both editors saw my work at Zoetrope, which is the great thing about the website; the networking. The first time I was able to contribute the piece they wanted, but the second time I had to politely decline as it had been accepted elsewhere. There didn’t seem to be hard feelings on anyone’s part. The editor was extremely understanding and asked me to submit again in the future, and accepted the second time around.
As nice as it is to have an editor request your work, I can see where it can put the writer in an awkward position if they had other plans for the piece. I’m still desperate enough that that hasn’t happened. It’s flattering.
Gerard C. (Jerry) Smith is a southerner. He’s a writer. He writes novels, short stories, flash fiction, poems. His work can be found in a bunch of different print and cyber zines.
Carrie Berry the editor of the great but now gone Gator Springs Gazette solicited a piece because she was told by someone that I wrote a novel (unpublished) about murder on the NASCAR circuit. I did an essay on writing the book called, Making White Lightning, which she published. Carrie also solicited a few of my poems but she turned down many more.
I was happy for the solicitations and agreed with the rejections. Carrie’s editorial judgment has always been A-1 and my stuff runs the gamut from good to the purest of crap.
Kelly Spitzer is a writer and an editor with SmokeLong Quarterly.
People will probably get mad at me for saying this, but here goes. What is this attitude about journals only soliciting and publishing their friends? I’ve heard this so many times, and it’s just ridiculous. I’ve especially heard it said in connection to SmokeLong. I cannot stress this enough—this is FALSE. I can’t say that for every journal, but I strongly suspect it’s false for them, too. I mean, who the hell starts a literary journal, which is a huge undertaking, a massive time commitment, and literally a labor of love, to only publish the writers they know? And as a writer why would you agree to that?? It’s illogical. If you see the same writers popping up in the same journals, it’s because they can WRITE, dammit. And they’ve established this, and the journals are a match for the authors’ styles. Now there’s a concept. And I bet you $500 bucks that these same authors have been rejected by these same journals before, and after, they’ve been published by them. I know it’s true of SmokeLong.
Yeah, SmokeLong solicits. And truth be told, I was opposed to this until I understood why. Mostly, the solicitations come from guest editors. I think if you’re going to guest edit somewhere, you should be given the opportunity to put together the best issue you can, that represents your style of fiction. Otherwise, why do it? Dave Clapper understands this, and gives guest editors a lot of room to make the issue uniquely theirs. Some guest editors choose to pull a lot from the submissions that come in, others choose to approach writers whose work they admire. Most do both. But I can assure you that every single submission that comes in is read by someone at SmokeLong. And every single issue (that I’ve been a part of) has included work that has come in through “the slush.”
Again, “writers whose work they admire” does not mean “friend.” Then again, I have no idea what people mean when they use the word friend in this context. Does it mean someone you talk on the phone with once a month? Share spit with? Or someone whose work you admire, and so maintain a friendly relationship. If people mean the latter, then fine. Journals publish their friends. Get over it. But do I think they only publish their friends, or that you need to be a friend to get published? Nope. I know we at SmokeLong love to find and publish writers new to us and the magazine. Other editors I know feel the same way. If you’re having trouble getting published, well, we’ve all been there. Go write. Get better. And if you ever get a chance to edit or guest edit for a magazine, do it. But remember, you can only publish your friends…
Have I been solicited? Yes. A couple times that I recall. One ended up in publication. Another I declined because I didn’t have anything to send. And once, the editor who’d asked to see work rejected the piece and called me Ryan. It was weird. And that’s all I really have to say about that.
Lesley C. Weston lives and writes in New York City. Her stories have appeared in SmokeLong Quarterly, Ars Medica, Per Contra, Gud Magazine, The Duck & Herring Field Guide, Night Train, and The Pisgah Review.
Have you been solicited?
Yes, happily, three times.
At different times, two editors from the same publication read stories I’d posted in a workshop and asked that I submit them for consideration. The first time, the story was rejected. I harbored no resentment. I was happy to be asked, and hoped to hit the mark in the future. As it turned out, the second story solicited was accepted.
The third time involved a story I’d worked on in a class. One of the other students was very taken with the piece. He later became an editor, got in touch with me, and asked that I submit two stories of my choice. The editor in chief liked both. A long debate followed over which they would take. In the end, they chose my favorite of the two.
Marilyn Marie Wilkins hails from San Antonio, Texas. Her most notable recent accomplishment was being named to Laura Hird’s Best of 2006.
I’ve only had Laura Hird ask me to contribute other work along with a rejection or two as an addition to the rejection notice. She ultimately did accept two pieces of non-fiction. Skive Magazine (anthology solicitation) asked and then never replied. A few hard feelings there as he has become more and more likely to reject something by simply ignoring it.
Filed Under: Get Real |
Editors: Do you solicit? If so, why? Where do you solicit from? Do you solicit particular stories, or do you just ask good writers to submit stuff? What do the writers say when they’re solicited?
Writers: Have you been solicited? What were the circumstances? Were you glad to be solicited? Has an editor approached you after seeing your work elsewhere, asked you to submit, only to reject you? If so, did this create hard feelings?
The answers:
Digby Beaumont is based in Brighton on the south coast of England. He worked as a nonfiction author for many years, with numerous publications, and his short fiction work has been widely published in magazines, journals, and anthologies.
I have had publishers say “we’d like to see more of your work” or words to that effect. This has happened, for example, when they have accepted a piece I have sent them, or when they have passed on something, and in a couple of cases where I had withdrawn work because it had been taken up elsewhere. I would usually find it encouraging to have them say this, I think, though I am aware that it may be part of some publishers’ standard rejection. I have had editors accept and reject work after asking me to submit. Rejection didn’t create any hard feelings. I can’t really see why it should. I would expect the work to be evaluated by the same criteria whether it had been “solicited” or not. “We’d like to see more” doesn’t mean “We’ll publish any old crap you send us.”
Matt Bell lives in Ann Arbor, MI, with his wife Jessica. His fiction has appeared in magazines such as Hobart, Barrelhouse, Caketrain, and Juked. He is also the Book Review Editor for NewPages.com and can be found on the web at www.mdbell.com.
I’ve been solicited a couple of times, always by newer independent magazines, who obviously have a harder time getting submissions for their early issues. I was glad to be solicited, and I have always sent the editor a story. It feels important to note that I have always sent something that I felt was one of my best available works, no matter what the venue. I would never send a B-list story to any publication, and certainly not to an editor who likes my work. Perhaps because of that, I’ve never had a story that was solicited not get published (although I did have one magazine go under before my story came out). I would not, however, take a solicitation as a promise of an instant acceptance. Editors should take a critical look at any submission, even one they’ve asked for.
I’m no longer a literary magazine editor, but when I worked with SmokeLong Quarterly I regularly solicited work. The first issue I worked there, when I was a guest editor, I solicited perhaps half of what we eventually published. I think that’s probably the case for most magazines, and in some cases the proportion is probably much higher. I don’t really have a problem with this as a writer or an editor, as long as there is still some opportunity for writers to get in from the slush pile. The simple fact is that every editor has writers (both established and emerging) who excite them, and it’s their right to try and get submissions from those writers. And I’m thankful for that–as a writer, wouldn’t you hope that one day you’d have editors who wanted to champion your work, who wanted to expose it to their audience over and over?
At the best magazines, that is always the point of soliciting work: Not getting the biggest names into print, but the best work. We should all be so lucky, both as editors and writers, to be a part of that process.
Fleur Bradley is a crime fiction writer from Colorado. Check out her Web site.
I’ve been solicited before. Usually it was by editor friends who know my writing style, so the acceptance was implied.
It’s nice. It saves saves me time and rejection. But to be honest, I always feel like I’m cheating a little by bypassing the submission process.
Mark Budman is the editor of Vestal Review magazine and the author of My Life at first Try. (Counterpoint, winter 2008)
Yes to all of your questions.
I solicit as an editor, approaching the writers I like. I get solicited as a writer.
When I solicit, I get all kinds of responses: from an instant submission to silence (as if some people follow Groucho Marx’s quip: “I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.”) Yes, sometimes I reject the people I solicit, but I never send a form rejection.
When I submit, responding to a solicitation, I get angry only if I receive a form reply. And when I get angry, I am never silent.
Ramon Collins lives on the NE edge of the Mojave Desert and is often seen running with a pack of scruffy coyotes.
I manage the Micro page on LINNET’S WINGS, a relatively new Irish e-zine (I say “manage” because I’m far too good-looking and humble to be an editor).
I did solicit material for edition one because I wanted a professional start. I asked Mary Miller and Jesse Patrick to submit stories as an indication of what I looked for. Some stories came in “over the transom” that weren’t as refined but I let them stand for a pilot edition. Pepe Nero submitted a solid micro that had a knot in the log but we worked around it.
LW uses four to seven micros (under 400 words) per quarter and I hope word-of-keyboard will bring in submissions. The spring edition is due on April 15 with five excellent stories.
Kathy Fish’s stories are published or forthcoming in Quick Fiction, The Denver Quarterly, Storyglossia, New South, and elsewhere. A collection of her short shorts will appear in a book published by Rose Metal Press at the end of March, 2008.
I’ve had work solicited directly from Zoetrope and I’ve also had work solicited from editors who have read my published stories elsewhere. In one case, I had an editor solicit work for a planned special issue of a magazine. It was to be all women writers, all very short fiction, and featuring Edith Perlman. I was so excited and sent off several pieces. The planned issue never came to fruition though. It was disappointing, but these things happen. And I’ve had other times where solicited work was then turned down. I think it’s just one of those things you have to understand. It’s a great honor to be asked, but don’t expect the work will be automatically accepted. No, it doesn’t create hard feelings for me. Just part of the biz. The worst part is the feeling that you’ve let down an editor who is otherwise enthusiastic about your work.
Vanessa Gebbie is a writer, editor and creative writing teacher.
Editor:
Yes I have solicited work. Not often, but I have, when I saw a piece by chance that fitted what I was looking for.
Writer:
I must be a strange creature. It is flattering to be asked to submit work to a publication I have time for. But I get less of a sense of achievement when it is published. Why? Because it wasn’t weighed in the balance in the same way as other work…it didn’t find its own way out there in the world.
I am also very aware of mates publishing mates… it happens, and means zilch… it may get writers a few credits but in the end your work has to make its own way out there, and being published by mates might not help you in the long run.
On the other hand, it might. The writing world is an unpredictable place.
Alicia Gifford writes short fiction and is currently working on a novel-in-stories. She is the Fiction Editor for the online literary journal Night Train.
As a writer, I’ve been solicited a few times with happy results, and that’s about all I have to say about that.
I haven’t done much soliciting as an editor. At Night Train we rely on the slush. I did some soliciting when I guest-edited at SmokeLong, and it’s great if you ask someone and they send a story and you’re thrilled with it. That’s a beautiful thing. It’s not so pleasant to solicit someone and then you don’t want what they send. It’s one of those many sticky situations inherent in the bidneth that makes me cringe. It did happen that a couple of writers that I solicited sent in several pieces of work that we turned down. You feel bad. Anyone who gets solicited should realize it’s not a sure thing.
I don’t have strong feelings about literary magazines that rely heavily on solicitations. Who cares?
Steve Hansen has had limited success as a writer, having published stories over the past 10 years at FRiGG, The Danforth Review, The Paumanok Review, and a few other online “reviews.” He currently spends his time and energy trying to meld the worlds of high finance, literature, and comic books at www.tqrstories.com.
If I have the time and inclination, I’ll troll the read page of this place for work that trips my trigger. One of the year’s best at our publication came from just such a fishing expedition wherein I landed the great Spanky Jones written by the equally great Hunter Whitcomb. So, yeah, we solicit, and sometimes to great effect. As I recall, Hunter was happy to be solicited.
I had a story solicited by Don Capone for the initial offering of his publishing house, Rebel Press. The book was called Rebellion and I was very happy to be in it with other Zoetropers. I think I bought a box of twenty. Every time I go to the local indie bookstore that I gave 12 copies to on consignment, I’m stymied to see the same 12 copies are still sneering back at me from the shelf. Hmf.
Debbie Ice lives in Connecticut with her husband, two boys, and English bulldog.
Yes, I have been. An editor, or probably the guest editor, of a popular online journal asked for a story he read online. A print editor read a story online and asked me to send them something. An online editor, a few, have read me and asked me to send stuff. (No specific story, just stuff.) An editor saw me read at a tiny reading once and asked me to write him a story after I told him the one I read was already published. I did that. I wrote a story specifically for him and sent it. I was surprised he liked it.
I have a couple of wonderful friends who are editors and liked my stuff and asked for stories. One published one, the other one showed it to the staff and the staff eventually rejected it. I loved how honest she was with me. And completely respected the process.
Obviously it is flattering to be solicited, and as a writer I appreciate an editor making me feel good about my writing. There is not much of that–feeling good–in writing and if a good writer, a good editor, anyone, besides my husband, dog and mama, make me feel good, well, it’s a good thing.
The slush is impossible and you really have to have a foot in the door nowadays. Just the way things are. I do think that too much soliciting soils the business if the SLUSH IS IGNORED. If all that happens is solicitation, or lifting from slush due to hype or connections, then publishing becomes “who do you know.” Which makes it all feel like Washington DC.
The big driving question is this–is the world of art, the one that offers itself to writers not readers, finding the best? Is quality driving art?
If, due to many complex factors, the answer to the above becomes well, not really, then what will a publishing credit mean? When we see publishing credits will we start thinking, right off, not– wow, they must write well– but, instead, I wonder who they know, I wonder where they got their MFA, I wonder what they are like in person–can they effusively flatter, walk lightly, never boldly, over egos (particularly if they are a woman), are they outgoing and, most importantly, I wonder if they are young and gorgeous. We may even stop asking–I wonder what the story was about.
Darby Larson’s fiction has appeared in McSweeney’s Internet Tendency, Opium Magazine, Monkeybicycle, and various other places. His short story, Electroencephalography, published in Greatest Uncommon Denominator, was nominated for a Pushcart Prize. He served as Guest Editor for Smokelong Quarterly’s Issue 8, and also served as Web Editor for a six month stint at Pindeldyboz. He lives in Northern California.
I don’t like the idea of soliciting material, or rather I don’t like that it sometimes seems necessary. I guess the hope is that there will always be enough in the slush to wow editors, but reality is depressing. I’ve solicited authors for material and I’ve also been solicited as an author. I regret the soliciting I did though. It was for a start-up called Quintessence that I was asked to be a part of early on and that I very soon discovered was not going to live up to anything so I quit I think even before the first issue went live. But before I’d quit, I’d solicited from writers who I’d respected in the past and I think it affected their perception of me and my own fiction, that I was naive to even ask, or something. A few did send work that we took and then I felt that much more horrible when I began to see what Quintessence really was, and then I quit, and then Quintessence predictably folded, and so I felt responsible for essentially taking good work from authors I respected and then erasing it from existence. Since then I’ve had a bad taste in my mouth about soliciting others for work for something I happen to be involved in. I’d rather take a mediocre work from the slush and work with an author to edit and find its potential than take something because it has a name on it.
On the other side of it all, I enjoy getting solicitations myself. It’s vindicating because there’s always a part of me that feels like a hack since my literary education has been so autodidactical, so when people ask for my work, I’m like, so you’re saying I’m actually kind of like a writer then? The fact that anyone ever asks me to be an editor is still baffling to me.
Your question about having solicited work rejected, yeah, that’s happened to me, but it almost doesn’t matter. I’d say it’s much worse for the editor who solicited, and I don’t think that’s ever happened to me as an editor. For a writer, or at least for me as a writer, getting solicited by itself is almost as good as being published. I’m very aware of how uncontrollable the conditions are for any particular story to get picked for publication anywhere. Something I learned when I was at Pindeldyboz, dreadful work would come in from authors I’d probably solicited myself because of work I’d read in the past, but rarely is anyone so consistent (myself included). The best you can hope for is someone who delivers a consistent pile of shit that happens to have a few more diamonds embedded inside than anyone else.
Joseph Levens has been published in The Florida Review, Other Voices, Swink, AGNI, New Orleans Review, and other publications. He is the editor of The Summerset Review.
The Summerset Review does not solicit. We would much rather publish good stories by unknowns, than mediocre ones by authors who have rose petals thrown at their feet as they walk. We have, however very rarely, solicited a specific story, simply because we fell so much in love with it, seeing it elsewhere.
Steven J. McDermott is the editor of Storyglossia. His short fiction has appeared in numerous literary journals and in his collection of stories Winter of Different Directions.
Of the 236 stories published in the first 26 issues of Storyglossia only four were solicited. As a general policy I don’t solicit stories, but in those four cases I had been blown away by stories those authors published in other journals, had praised the stories in my blog, and then sent them a link to the blog entry and said I hoped they’d consider submitting to Storyglossia in the future. They were thrilled by the reviews I’d written of their work and were also flattered by the offer to submit, sent good submissions, which I in turn was thrilled to accept. Other writers have written to thank me for reviewing their stories or collections, and I took that occasion to encourage them to submit, but I don’t consider that a solicitation because I encourage everyone who writes me to submit. I want to see a broad spectrum of work so the more submissions the better as far as I’m concerned. Issues 27 and 28 have guest editors, who were given complete editorial autonomy, and I think they each solicited some submissions, but I don’t know how many. I’m fine with the guest editors doing some solicitation because it helps them shape the issue they envision. Otherwise, the quality of submissions has been so high recently, that I’m quite happy to fill entire issues with unsolicited submissions.
Stefani Nellen’s work has appeared or is forthcoming in Inkwell, Apex Digest, Cosmos Magazine, FRiGG, SmokeLong Quarterly, and more. Her stories have been included in Dzanc Books’ Best of the Web 2008 Anthology and shortlisted for the 2008 Fish Short Story Prize. Stefani splits her time between the US and the Netherlands.
One of my stories, “The Attraction of Asphalt,” was solicited by SmokeLong Quarterly after I’d posted it at the zoetrope.com workshop. I remember I was very surprised, and, of course, happy. I sent in a slightly revised version using the feedback I got from the reviewers. Apart from that, I’ve gone the slush route so far.
No, no editor ever solicited something from me only to reject it later (although Apex Digest invited me to revise and resubmit without a guarantee of publication; fortunately the revisions worked for them).
I guess my reaction to such a rejection would depend on the exact circumstances. If the editor made it clear that they can’t promise publication (instead, they’re simply interested in reading my work and don’t want to wait for it to rise through the slush - or not) — well, in that case I would be disappointed but not angry if the editor eventually decided to pass. However, if they claimed to want a particular story of mine for their mag and then end up not publishing it — without any external reasons, such as mag folding, etc. — I would be miffed for a moment or two.
Ellen Parker writes fiction and edits the online literary journal FRiGG: A Magazine of Fiction and Poetry.
As an editor, I do solicit stories that I see posted in the Flash Fiction or Short Stories wing(s) at the Zoetrope Virtual Studio, or in private rooms there. Sometimes I happen upon these stories myself or sometimes a writer I know will say (for example), Hey, have you seen so-and-so’s groovy story posted in the Flash wing?! I also sometimes tell other editors about stories there that might be right for their magazines. So it’s like a whole big slush pile at Zoetrope Virtual Studios and lots of people are wading through it. (This doesn’t mean we see everything posted there, though, or even most of it. If we missed yours, forgive us: we were asleep at the wheel and this is not uncommon, us being asleep.)
Almost always I ask a writer if I can have a specific story that I have read in its entirety at Zoetrope. That way, I know exactly what I’m asking for. I am hesitant to ask a writer to just, you know, maybe someday, if they feel like it, go ahead and submit–just willy-nilly throw something over the transom because I like your style and maybe I’ll take it if you’re lucky and if I’m in a good mood and if it’s a Tuesday. I can see a whollllllle lot of pitfalls lying ahead there. I ain’t going down that road, m’dears—unless I know the writer’s work well and I am almost certain he or she will send something I like. Also, sometimes I see comments a writer makes in a room at Zoetrope and I’ll say to that writer, This would make a good story, or a good nonfiction piece. Would you like to try to write it? Then the writer either says, Hell, no, or else, OK, I’ll try. Then, if the writer needs or wants me to, I’ll work with the writer in developing the piece.
When I ask a writer if I can publish in FRiGG a story I see at Zoetrope, sometimes they say, Gosh, I’m flattered, but I want to try submitting the story to a print magazine. And I understand perfectly. In fact, I am positive the story will get placed in a print magazine because it’s such a good story. Plus, I figure after it appears in print, maybe the writer will let me run it in FRiGG! We do run stories and poems that have appeared in print because, you see, hardly anyone has seen these stories or poems yet. Maybe thirteen people read print literary magazines, and five of them are librarians and seven of them are college professors. Maybe one is an agent’s receptionist.
As a writer, I have been solicited and I loved it! I always said yes. I am very easy. Again, it was always a story that was posted somewhere at Zoetrope (in one of the fiction wings or in a private room), so the editor knew exactly what he or she was asking for. No one has ever just asked me to submit any old story because they’d seen me around and liked my style. I guess I should be insulted. Oh, actually, one guy did. I think this guy was using a fake name. He said he saw my story at Pindeldyboz and would I send him some stories and I eagerly sent him a bunch and he took them all and now I’m sorry because I don’t like his Web site. Why’d I send him those stories? I am so freakin’ easy. See, you shouldn’t always give stuff to people just because they ask you. Those people might have ugly Web sites.
J. M. Patrick lives in Connecticut with a small cactus and a squirrel named Todd. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in SmokeLong Quarterly, The Summerset Review, Night Train, and NOÖ Journal, among others. She can be found online at www.jmpatrick.org.
I’ve had work solicited twice, and it’s a great feeling to cut out all of the ‘waiting-on-the-edge-of-your-seat” of regular submissions . Both editors saw my work at Zoetrope, which is the great thing about the website; the networking. The first time I was able to contribute the piece they wanted, but the second time I had to politely decline as it had been accepted elsewhere. There didn’t seem to be hard feelings on anyone’s part. The editor was extremely understanding and asked me to submit again in the future, and accepted the second time around.
As nice as it is to have an editor request your work, I can see where it can put the writer in an awkward position if they had other plans for the piece. I’m still desperate enough that that hasn’t happened. It’s flattering.
Gerard C. (Jerry) Smith is a southerner. He’s a writer. He writes novels, short stories, flash fiction, poems. His work can be found in a bunch of different print and cyber zines.
Carrie Berry the editor of the great but now gone Gator Springs Gazette solicited a piece because she was told by someone that I wrote a novel (unpublished) about murder on the NASCAR circuit. I did an essay on writing the book called, Making White Lightning, which she published. Carrie also solicited a few of my poems but she turned down many more.
I was happy for the solicitations and agreed with the rejections. Carrie’s editorial judgment has always been A-1 and my stuff runs the gamut from good to the purest of crap.
Kelly Spitzer is a writer and an editor with SmokeLong Quarterly.
People will probably get mad at me for saying this, but here goes. What is this attitude about journals only soliciting and publishing their friends? I’ve heard this so many times, and it’s just ridiculous. I’ve especially heard it said in connection to SmokeLong. I cannot stress this enough—this is FALSE. I can’t say that for every journal, but I strongly suspect it’s false for them, too. I mean, who the hell starts a literary journal, which is a huge undertaking, a massive time commitment, and literally a labor of love, to only publish the writers they know? And as a writer why would you agree to that?? It’s illogical. If you see the same writers popping up in the same journals, it’s because they can WRITE, dammit. And they’ve established this, and the journals are a match for the authors’ styles. Now there’s a concept. And I bet you $500 bucks that these same authors have been rejected by these same journals before, and after, they’ve been published by them. I know it’s true of SmokeLong.
Yeah, SmokeLong solicits. And truth be told, I was opposed to this until I understood why. Mostly, the solicitations come from guest editors. I think if you’re going to guest edit somewhere, you should be given the opportunity to put together the best issue you can, that represents your style of fiction. Otherwise, why do it? Dave Clapper understands this, and gives guest editors a lot of room to make the issue uniquely theirs. Some guest editors choose to pull a lot from the submissions that come in, others choose to approach writers whose work they admire. Most do both. But I can assure you that every single submission that comes in is read by someone at SmokeLong. And every single issue (that I’ve been a part of) has included work that has come in through “the slush.”
Again, “writers whose work they admire” does not mean “friend.” Then again, I have no idea what people mean when they use the word friend in this context. Does it mean someone you talk on the phone with once a month? Share spit with? Or someone whose work you admire, and so maintain a friendly relationship. If people mean the latter, then fine. Journals publish their friends. Get over it. But do I think they only publish their friends, or that you need to be a friend to get published? Nope. I know we at SmokeLong love to find and publish writers new to us and the magazine. Other editors I know feel the same way. If you’re having trouble getting published, well, we’ve all been there. Go write. Get better. And if you ever get a chance to edit or guest edit for a magazine, do it. But remember, you can only publish your friends…
Have I been solicited? Yes. A couple times that I recall. One ended up in publication. Another I declined because I didn’t have anything to send. And once, the editor who’d asked to see work rejected the piece and called me Ryan. It was weird. And that’s all I really have to say about that.
Lesley C. Weston lives and writes in New York City. Her stories have appeared in SmokeLong Quarterly, Ars Medica, Per Contra, Gud Magazine, The Duck & Herring Field Guide, Night Train, and The Pisgah Review.
Have you been solicited?
Yes, happily, three times.
At different times, two editors from the same publication read stories I’d posted in a workshop and asked that I submit them for consideration. The first time, the story was rejected. I harbored no resentment. I was happy to be asked, and hoped to hit the mark in the future. As it turned out, the second story solicited was accepted.
The third time involved a story I’d worked on in a class. One of the other students was very taken with the piece. He later became an editor, got in touch with me, and asked that I submit two stories of my choice. The editor in chief liked both. A long debate followed over which they would take. In the end, they chose my favorite of the two.
Marilyn Marie Wilkins hails from San Antonio, Texas. Her most notable recent accomplishment was being named to Laura Hird’s Best of 2006.
I’ve only had Laura Hird ask me to contribute other work along with a rejection or two as an addition to the rejection notice. She ultimately did accept two pieces of non-fiction. Skive Magazine (anthology solicitation) asked and then never replied. A few hard feelings there as he has become more and more likely to reject something by simply ignoring it.
Filed Under: Get Real |
April 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Check dis out, kids:
the reject
Who is this dork? He read this installment of Get Real and he concludes that you need to “Get Some Friends in High Places . . . Now!” Also, getting published is not what you write, but who you know. And some of the “candid” responses here made his “hair curl.” He files this blog post under “annoying, misguided.”
What is this guy’s deal? He actually believes that if editors never solicited material, his stories would be published all over the place???? Or something. What? What is his beef?
Also, who the f*ck is he? I hate when these weenie-asses share all their “opinions” with us–but they won’t tell us who they are.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:49 am But whether we like it or not, he or she has a point. There is an element of ‘who you know’ in the writing business. And yes, I sympathise with the guy. There is so much blah about… why is it bad to say so?
Why does solicitation take place at all? Because for the most part the selecting editor knows the writer’s work… so although they may not know the writer personally, it is ‘who you know’, isn’t it!?
I dont blame him for not saying his name. So you’d willingly read a named sub from him, would you, and consider it openly? I dont think so!
Does he say he’d be published all over the place if solicitation doesnt take place? I didnt see that line. But again, isnt it just logic? if there was no solicitation, some writers who get frequently rejected would get published.
And some of them (yeah yeah, not many…) would be very very good writers.
I know why solicitation takes place. I know the standard of much of the slush is poor. But still….
April 20th, 2008 at 7:25 am You know, at least two of my solicitations came from editors I’d never heard of. They’d read my work in other magazines and thought, I presume, that I’d be a good match for their publication. And this was back when I had like two publication credits to my name. And SmokeLong has published writers they “know” and don’t particularly care for, but like their writing. Really, I think the writing trumphs all. You can be as annoying as the person Ellen is quoting and still get published if your writing kicks ass. Or, you can be a total kiss ass, know every writer in the universe, and never get published because you can’t write.
April 20th, 2008 at 8:13 am Of course… no one will get published in decent places unless they can write… I’m certainly not saying that.
But it is frustrating for those who do not have ‘contacts’… or belong to the writing groups where their work might be seen by editors, like Zoetrope…I know, because I’ve been there and felt that frustration.
It is great to be contacted by eds who have seen your work and loved it. But as Matt Bell says above,
“… every editor has writers… who excite them, and it’s their right to try and get submissions from those writers. And I’m thankful for that–as a writer, wouldn’t you hope that one day you’d have editors who wanted to champion your work, who wanted to expose it to their audience over and over? …”
And yes, of course that is lovely, and of course, as a writer it is great to think sometimes your work excites the right people… but it also validates what the writer in the blog is saying. That in many many cases, it is ‘who you know’ in addition to the writer’s ability to write well. It’s the ‘once you’re in, you’re in’ syndrome.
It’s great to hear Smokelong publishes work from people they don’t like… I wouldnt want it any other way!
I didn’t understand the anger in Ellen’s response…
April 20th, 2008 at 11:54 pm Just to add something to the comments here: Vanessa points out in her original entry to this post that she feels less of an accomplishment when she gets something published as a result of a solicitation. I think editors feel somewhat similar about soliciting writers. I had the honor of publishing some great people by soliciting them, but getting their stories didn’t compare with the thrill of finding something great in the slush.
I think the literary rejections blog is an extension of a feeling that a lot of beginning writers have (and some who’ve been around long enough to know better). I often feel that people approach the submitting process in a defensive posture, assuming that editors are these horrible people just waiting for a chance to reject them. Assuming that every rejection is just validation that the system is crooked, that no one will understand their work or give it a fair chance because the don’t have an MFA and a cousin that works for Knopf.
Sometimes, of course, they’re right. More often than not though, these writers (or these particular stories, as we’ve all sent out stories before they’re ready) just aren’t ready for publication, or haven’t found their audience yet. The other big culprit is that people submit over and over again to the wrong magazines, either because they have unrealistic hopes (see every forum post comparing response times from The New Yorker) or because they’re shotgunning submissions, firing off stories to magazines they’ve never read and never will. This is seriously the worst crime writers make, and they do it over and over. Why you would even want to be in a magazine you know nothing about is beyond me.
Bottom line, if the work is good enough (and you’ve done your homework), it’ll find a home, and hopefully the right one for that particular story. I truly believe that, and I think most writers and editors do too.
April 21st, 2008 at 4:35 pm Vanessa, here’s where you’re wrong (actually, this is just one place you’re wrong):
“So you’d willingly read a named sub from him, would you, and consider it openly? I dont think so!”
Darlin’, I would. If I knew this guy’s name and he submitted a story that I thought was kick-ass, I’d take it RIGHT AWAY. Do not presume to know what I (or any other editor) would or would not do in any given situation.
Also, this:
“That in many many cases, it is ‘who you know’ in addition to the writer’s ability to write well. It’s the ‘once you’re in, you’re in’ syndrome.”
I absolutely do not understand your point here. It’s not “who you know.” It’s “can you write.” And what do you mean, “once you’re in, you’re in.” You’re “in” where? I don’t get what you’re saying here, either. Just because you’ve written well enough to get into some magazines–perhaps numerous magazines– doesn’t mean that anything you write thereafter will immediately be grabbed by any editor. Also, as we’ve noted here, editors do sometimes solicit writers–and then reject those writers’ work when the editor doesn’t think the work up to snuff. No one is automatically “in” anywhere, ever.
“Does he say he’d be published all over the place if solicitation doesnt take place? I didnt see that line.”
It was an inference–and an inference that you made as well. To wit:
“But again, isnt it just logic? if there was no solicitation, some writers who get frequently rejected would get published.”
It’s not “logic.” Soliciting does not automatically mean some other meritorious writers get passed over. There are not necessarily X number of places that MUST be filled in a literary journal. At FRiGG, in any issue, we run as many good pieces as we can find. It’s not like, Oh, we solicited two pieces this issue, so we’ll have to turn away these two writers from the slush. THAT NEVER HAPPENS. Those two good writers from the slush will appear in FRiGG. If we have only two good stories, we’ll publish two. If we have 10 good stories, we’ll publish 10.
Now, I don’t know how things work at the top-tier print journals. Maybe they do have only X number of slots to fill and they are so inundated with good stories (this is hard for me to imagine) that they have to turn away a whole slew of good stories. I guarantee ya, if those “rejected” stories are so freekin good, the writers can just keep shopping them around and they will get taken sooner or later. There is no such thing as a good story that cannot find a home. NO SUCH THING. Maybe the story won’t find a home in The Paris Review next autumn, but is this what we’re bitter about? If that writer is good enough and persistent enough, he or she will eventually get published in magazines of progressively higher stature. This will most likely happen slowly. Is this the real problem? That we have to wait? That your favorite magazine will not take you RIGHT AWAY? And because they’re not snapping your work up RIGHT AWAY, then that must mean that they’re turning you away for one of their “friends.” This attitude makes me tired. The path to becoming a good writer who gets published in good magazines can be a very, very long one. It might take years. It might take decades. If this discourages you as a writer, then you need to get out of the business. If you cannot stand the idea that you will not get accepted by your favorite magazines right away, then you need to pursue an activity that will offer more rapid gratification.
This attitude that you and some other writers have–this bitterness–that they are getting passed over, time and again, because somehow the deck is unfairly stacked against you in favor of other, more “privileged” writers for reasons that have NOTHING to do with quality of writing–this attitude borders on pathology. It bespeaks a mentally unsound world view. Again, I would urge those writers who have this attitude, who persistently revisit it, who gnaw on it, blog about it, talk about it ceaselessly to whomever will listen–I would urge these writers to quit writing and look for a pursuit that will make them feel more satisfied in the short term.
April 21st, 2008 at 5:52 pm You don’t understand the anger in Ellen’s response? Maybe it’s because the asshat came in with a preconceived view of publishing and cherry-picked to find the quotes that agreed with him and then whined about it anonymously? Guy needs to grow some fucking balls.
And yes, SLQ has published people I personally can’t stand, because the writing was good, and has rejected people I like a lot because the writing wasn’t good enough. Hell, we’ve SOLICITED people I can’t stand because a specific piece they wrote was great.
And y’know what? Ellen doesn’t say it here, but I’ve seen her accept stuff from people she doesn’t like, too. The writing is good or it isn’t.
This victim mentality some writers have is fucking tiresome. If a writer is absolutely convinced that an editor doesn’t like him/her, then move on to another. It’s not like magazines are in short supply. Hell, as a writer, I once had an editor specifically tell me not to submit there anymore because of the way she personally felt about me. Okay! Moving on, ma’am! And the work that could have been published there found better homes elsewhere. Time spent whining and playing the victim is better spent writing and submitting.
April 22nd, 2008 at 8:18 am Wow! Now things are getting a little personal, so I won’t chuck more fuel on the fire.
This was a good if touchy topic to air. I think we can now see exactly how touchy!!
Thanks for doing so, Kelly.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:21 am Well, it’s called “Get Real,” after all. And for the record, I disagree with the blogger Ellen is calling out. I think Dave is right–this person has a preconceived view, and “cherry-picked” quotes that served it. I, for one, would realy like to know which quotes will “make your hair curl,” because I’m just not seeing them.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:52 am V, I think it’s touchy because the attitude we see from the blogger mentioned is a little bit like being asked the question, “So, have you stopped hitting your wife?” There’s no satisfactory answer to it–it pre-supposes guilt.
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:59 am I was intrigued to visit Frigg, see how many writers are Zoers.
six out of seven ain’t bad.
No wonder people are touchy. Raw nerves touched all round.
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 am And sure the writing is very good. I am NOT saying it isn’t.
But this ratio fuels frustration, surely thats obvious?
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:50 pm Perhaps you should look at their archive page, V. One issue isn’t enough to judge by, imho.
April 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm Oh, and… I like your math. 3 out of 4 of the prose writers, 2 out of the 6 poets. That sure adds up to 6 out of 7 from where I’m sitting.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:33 pm Okay guys, I’ve got my wine and chocolate cake, and I’m ready to tackle this. I’m going to try and be as thorough and as fair as possible, which means I anticipate this post being loooong. So, settle in.
This entire discussion started because I saw a link to Get Real: Solicitations on the Literary Rejections on Display blog, and showed it to the project’s partner, Ellen Parker. The post on the Literary Rejections site bugs me, I won’t lie. Why? Because I don’t see where this blogger is finding quotes to make his/her hair curl. “Get Some Friends in High Places…Now!.. getting published is who you know, not what you write…” There are no quotes to support this argument, and looking back through the responses here on my blog, I only see a few that could possibly be interpreted in this manner.
Examples:
Matt Bell said: “The simple fact is that every editor has writers (both established and emerging) who excite them, and it’s their right to try and get submissions from those writers. And I’m thankful for that–as a writer, wouldn’t you hope that one day you’d have editors who wanted to champion your work, who wanted to expose it to their audience over and over?”
Fleur Bradley said: “I’ve been solicited before. Usually it was by editor friends who know my writing style, so the acceptance was implied.”
Debbie Ice said: “I have a couple of wonderful friends who are editors and liked my stuff and asked for stories.”
However, Debbie Ice goes on to say: “One published one, the other one showed it to the staff and the staff eventually rejected it. I loved how honest she was with me. And completely respected the process.” And Fleur Bradley is one of the nicest, most humble and down to earth people I “know.” As for Matt Bell, he posted in the comments section one of the best responses I’ve seen yet. Here it is, verbatim, again:
“Just to add something to the comments here: Vanessa points out in her original entry to this post that she feels less of an accomplishment when she gets something published as a result of a solicitation. I think editors feel somewhat similar about soliciting writers. I had the honor of publishing some great people by soliciting them, but getting their stories didn’t compare with the thrill of finding something great in the slush.
I think the literary rejections blog is an extension of a feeling that a lot of beginning writers have (and some who’ve been around long enough to know better). I often feel that people approach the submitting process in a defensive posture, assuming that editors are these horrible people just waiting for a chance to reject them. Assuming that every rejection is just validation that the system is crooked, that no one will understand their work or give it a fair chance because the don’t have an MFA and a cousin that works for Knopf.
Sometimes, of course, they’re right. More often than not though, these writers (or these particular stories, as we’ve all sent out stories before they’re ready) just aren’t ready for publication, or haven’t found their audience yet. The other big culprit is that people submit over and over again to the wrong magazines, either because they have unrealistic hopes (see every forum post comparing response times from The New Yorker) or because they’re shotgunning submissions, firing off stories to magazines they’ve never read and never will. This is seriously the worst crime writers make, and they do it over and over. Why you would even want to be in a magazine you know nothing about is beyond me.
Bottom line, if the work is good enough (and you’ve done your homework), it’ll find a home, and hopefully the right one for that particular story. I truly believe that, and I think most writers and editors do too.”
Not once did I get the impression that you needed to know people in high places to get published. (What are high places??) In fact, what I gleaned from the responses was quite the opposite—you can know people, or have connections, to editors, but that still doesn’t guarantee you shit. See the comments from Digby Beaumont, Alicia Gifford, Ellen Parker, and myself, to name a few. Or check out what Darby Larson, Joe Levens, and Steven McDermott had to say about not soliciting.
Vanessa is saying yes, this makes for an element of “who you know” in the writing business. I can see where she’s coming from, but I really, truly think it’s a moot point. You can know all the editors in the world, but if you can’t write, you’re not going to get published. If you can write, and do know editors, yeah, some of them will probably publish you. They will probably reject you, too. And again, I don’t think you need to know a soul in the writing business to get published. Why do I think this? From what people have told me and from my own personal experiences.
Oddly enough, only one of my publication credits came from an editor I “knew” beforehand, and that editor was Vanessa herself. She solicited a story from me for her journal Tom’s Voice, and I was happy to give it to her because her journal serves a great purpose. I don’t think (or I hope!) that Vanessa feels any shame in having solicited me. I am curious however, if, as she and the Literary Rejections on Display voice claim, soliciting my story bumped a writer from the slush out of position. Did it?
Vanessa said in her response to Ellen: “Does he say he’d be published all over the place if solicitation doesnt take place? I didnt see that line. But again, isnt it just logic? if there was no solicitation, some writers who get frequently rejected would get published.”
and Writer, Rejected said: “I guess just the fact that it’s a practice among editors (whether they like it or not, do it or not) means that they ask their friends (or established writers they like) while they are rejecting you. So if you became friends with them, you’d be asked too. Something like that makes me think it’s who you know.”
Are either or you reading the responses?? It doesn’t honestly seem like it… I guess I can’t say this is true for every journal, especially the print journals, but I’ve never heard of an editor soliciting writers and then rejecting good, worthy writers whose submissions came in through the slush because they solicited a writer instead. If the slush submission was that fucking good, it’d get published right along side the solicited piece. Now that’s logic. And no, absolutely fucking not, Writer, Rejected, would you get solicited too if you became friends with editors. At least not on that criterion alone. You gotta be able to write, man!!!
Maybe my perceptions have been skewed by the editors I have worked with. I’ve been incredibly fortunate to work with Dave Clapper, who will put all personal feelings aside to publish good writing. I’ve seen him do it!!! And he’s generous enough with his journal to let his staff publish work they like even if he doesn’t. Also, he concedes that there are editors who won’t publish writers they don’t personally like, even if they like the writing. It happened to him…
As for Ellen Parker, she is feisty, but she’s one of the fairest people I know, with an incredible eye for great writing. She will tell it how she sees it, and be honest with you about everything. So if she says she’d publish Writer, Rejected if she liked his/her work, I totally believe her.
I guess my problem with Writer, Rejected and Vanessa’s comments are lack of evidence. Can either of you back up your argument? Do you have personal experience? An editor who rejected you because they solicited a piece instead, maybe? I’d like to know! I’d be stunned and find that despicable, but at least I’d understand where you’re coming from.
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:17 pm Kelly, and Ellen, and everyone who responded, thank you for the great dialogue on this matter.
I’d like to add that I’ve had the great pleasure to be part of the SmokeLong staff as well, and was throughly impressed with the integrity of Dave Clapper and the rest of the staff. And I’ve also had the privilege to guest edit for Storyglossia which is run by an
amazing man who is completely committed to discovering great work. It’s all about the work. That’s what makes these journals so incredibly good. It’s the quality of the work.
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:35 am Sigh.
Hard evidence, from the slush piles I don’t see, of ezines for which I am not editor? Kelly, you set an impossible task. And as an editor, I know that the quality of any subs pile is variable, so stats are notoriously unreliable.
But how about a stab at statistical evidence?
Duotrope Stats are used as an indicator of how tough a place is to get into. (Fact.)
Frigg current stats state that they reject over 80% of submissions. They do not respond to about 12%, accept about 5% .
That makes Frigg a strong credit to have, if the stats are correct, and subs will flow in from serious writers.
Then, say a writer is rejected, looks at the current 5% acceptances and sees SIX OUT OF SEVEN are easily traceable as being from ‘mates’, ‘’colleagues from Zoetrope’, call them what you will.
I cant work out the probabilities…
A while back in a Zoe office, it was mooted whether or not a mags (think it was Smokelong) should state what proportion of their content is solicited, as a point of information for readers and potential subbers.
THE WRITERS said no!!! Why? because it LOOKS BAD.
Toms Voice mag was delighted to ask you for a piece of work, which fitted exactly what the mag is about. No, nothing suitable was rejected to make room for that piece.
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:41 am I am not an editor. I respond as a writer.
I enjoy my relationships with editors. If it were not for a few editors that have appreciated my work I would likely not be writing. In the least, I would not be publishing. I rarely submit to any publication where I do not know the editor, or am not curious to know the editor better. That is me. I am never too sure if they like me, or not. But if they accept anything less than my best attempt at writing then I consider it a fault of lack of mutual respect. I like when editors respect me enough to say, “No, not this one, not this time.”
I have a busy life with my own directions and Zoetrope happens to be about the only opportunity I have to interface with writers, or editors. Most of the folks that I know and write for don’t read much, and find me a curiosity for the fact that I write at all. I have come to some fine relationships with editors through Zoetrope. I don’t really give a damn how any other writers, rejected or accepted, feel about that.
I have an upcoming re-publication of a story that I care about, that I hope is a good story, that I have an emotional investment in (please do not take my sense of worth away from me with an implication that I cheated on the writing) and lest I be suddenly skewed into a Zoetrope statistic the editor DID NOT this time around solicit the piece, and had in fact been turned down when the piece was years ago solicited. Writers, at least this one, reject editors from time to time. We try to do it gently and without a form letter. That care and respect in time leads to a relationship. As I see it, editors need to know writers if they hope to get any good work to publish.
There are a whole lot of writers that write shit and will never do anything more than write shit. They can bludgeon the editors but it won’t make much difference in the result. Shit is shit.
Literary Rejections on Display comes across to me as an archetype of disgruntled crankass that I have seen gassing on about rejections and the cabal of editors and writers for nearly a half century. It comes across as tedious, it is a drag, and it removes the joy of play. What else is there but he joy of play? If there was a quarter on the floor I could see having a pissing match, but there is not a quarter on the floor. There is piss on the floor and I don’t need more of that. Can take care of my own just fine, thank you.
Lastly, I have a friend who is/was best friends with the poetry editor at the New Yorker. The story I was told by my friend was that the staff got so fed up with writers complaining that the editors only selected a bunch of friends to publish that the editors made an effort to select a whole new set of writers and that the complaints kept right on that the editors were only publishing their friends.
There are only so many people that we are ever going to know or care about in our lives. If some of them happen to be editors or writers then happy happy.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:31 am Oh give me a break. Nothing here supports that publishing isn’t a game about who you know, either. My experience supports LROD on that. Besides, talking about short stories, the market is dead. There is almost NOWHERE to publish short stories now. So who gets published? Friends of the editors.
Oh wait, I know where this is going. You’re going to tell me that there’s THOUSANDS of places to publish short stories. Yes, technically, yes — but almost ZERO places for writers who (a) want to get paid (ie, writing is their job) and (b) want to be read. Almost all of the stupid “literary journals” pay zero, or practically zero, and are only read by nerdy English department wonks. And the kind of stories they publish reflect that. It’s a sick joke.
April 23rd, 2008 at 6:00 am Publishing is a social world. For many writers, writing is a solitary one. How are you going to negotiate that gap? A necessary question.
April 23rd, 2008 at 8:32 am I also want to add that a lot of Zoetrope members submit to the publications you point out through the slush. We’ve accepted many this way. Sometimes yes, we might recognize the author’s work. Other times we don’t, and it’s a pleasant surprise to find out we’re going to accept a story from a writer we “know.” If I had to bet, I’d say several of those in the issue of FRiGG you point out came in over the transom.
But enough arguing!! I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
April 23rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm Abe, that’s another issue altogether. I’d agree that the art of the short story is highly undervalued today. I fail to see how that’s the fault of the editors, though.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm I’ll make a few last points here, and then I’m backing out of this discussion. I think there are two camps here–and neither camp has a good understanding of the other’s point of view.
About Duotrope: Their statistics are based on numbers compiled from members of Duotrope. Those percentages are not based on all submitters. So Duotrope’s numbers are not accurate, and it’s risky to use those numbers to make a case in an argument.
Also, the reason that FRiGG runs a large number of writers from Zoetrope is that we get a disproportionately large number of submittals from Zoetrope writers. And I frequently look at the work posted at Zoetrope. I openly admit this–and I would advise any writer who is interested in getting his or her work in front of editors (and other writers) to join Zoetrope and participate seriously there. There are many, many benefits to doing so–perhaps chief among them being the dramatic improvements in one’s writing that can happen via the process of posting writing, getting feedback on it (often from very skilled writers), and learning how to revise and refine. Also, you can evaluate the writing of hundreds of other writers and learn from it. You can meet and “talk shop” with editors and many other writers. You’ll learn about markets for your fiction. Anyone from any background, any race, any religion, from anywhere in the world, can join Zoetrope. It is not a closed forum. It’s a huge place, and its members tend to be quite savvy about online venues for fiction and poetry. Many members of Zeotrope are actively submitting their work to many magazines. In fact, as I believe has been pointed out, pick any online lit mag and you’ll see Zoetropers represented there–sometimes a lot of them. Why is this? It’s because there are so many Zoetropers submitting work! And many of them are quite good writers (in many cases, they’ve gotten good because they’ve spent years workshopping their work at Zoetrope). Now, there are other ways to improve one’s fiction writing skills–but Zoetrope is a darn good way. It’s absolutely free of charge and you can participate according to your own schedule, for as short or as long a time as you want to.
I daresay that many of the best fiction writers whose work we currently see at various online and print venues are, or have been, members of Zoetrope. I believe these numbers will continue to grow as the years pass–if Mr. Coppola and his cohorts are good enough to keep offering the Virtual Studio as a gathering place for writers.
So, yeah, a lot of writers whose work appears in online magazines are members of Zoetrope. That’s because there are a lot of these writers and many of them are very good. Is Zoetrope a “club”? I dunno if it’s a “club”–but if it is, it sure as hell ain’t exclusive.
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:47 pm Well said.
Plus, the Zoetrope workshop is totally free.
I can honestly say that Zoetrope Studios helped
me to improve my writing.
It’s also helped writers such as Chimamanda
Ngozie Adichie, Roy Kesey, Jim Ruland, Pia Z.
Erhardt, Lisa McMann and Kim Chinquee.
These writers, respectively, have topped the
N.Y. Times Bestseller List, won a Pushcart Prize,
the Narrative Prize, and an Orange Prize.
Definitely not “small potatoes.”
I’m a member of Zoetrope Studios, and I get rejected
all the time, from magazine editors who are also Zoetrope Studio members. I’ve been rejected multiple times by Opium Magazine, Night Train, Vestal Review, Smokelong Quarterly,
Pindeldyboz, Hobart, Mad Hatter’s Review, and Word Riot, just to name a few.
Rejection comes with the territory of writing and publishing. And yes, I have been guilty of thinking
“bad thoughts” about editors who have rejected my work.
But I’m getting way too old to make a pattern out of
that perspective. Persistence is a better template.
Plus patience, but everybody already knows this.
Bottom line: I’m always surprised when anybody
wishes to publish my stuff. And that goes for whether
the editor in question is an absolute stranger, or
someone I’ve worked with countless times before.
Okay then. Enough preachin’ to the choir.
Carry on, good people!
–DM
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm Oh, yeah.
I hasten to add:
Roy Kesey got a BASS nod from Stephen King, and
Jim Ruland is the recipient of an NEA Fellowship.
Ahem…
Now I’m done.
;)
April 24th, 2008 at 6:17 am Well, thank God that art galleries, museums, dance schools, orchestras, opera companies, etc. don’t ever solicit work or performers. We wouldn’t want to give any artists a chance that don’t send in their resume, audition or submit an application, would we? Is writing really so different?