Welcome to another round of Get Real, hosted by FRiGG editor Ellen Parker and myself. Let us know how you feel about “The Money Factor” in the comments section.

As a writer, do you submit only (or first) to magazines that pay–regardless of how much they pay? Or does a magazine have to pay a certain amount to attract your interest? If so, how much? Or is payment not a criterion when you’re submitting?

Do you approve of magazines charging reading fees, or fees to enter contests? Why or why not? If you approve, how much would you be willing to pay as a reading fee or an entry fee?

Mary Akers writes and obsesses in Western, NY. She is currently trying not to think about the pending offers for her non-fiction book.

1) No, I don’t only submit to paying magazines. If I did, I’d probably never get published; there just aren’t that many paying venues for literary fiction, particularly for an emerging writer’s work. So, no, it’s not a criterion I use when submitting, but it’s wonderful icing on a cakey acceptance. (Why am I saying that? I hate icing.)

2) In general, I don’t approve of reading fees. I don’t have a well-considered moral high-ground position, it’s just a gut thing for me. It doesn’t feel right. Having said that, I have paid the small $3 “processing fee” that Missouri Review charges for electronic submissions. It would cost me more than that to print a story out, enclose an SASE, and mail it in, so I don’t mind that as much. It’s even better, though, if I can submit for free, especially when it’s a non-paying mag.

Ann Amodeo lives and writes fiction in Woodstock, NY. Her stories can be found online at Hobart, Ghoti, The Beat, and others. Her novel, “Quiet at the End of the World,” will be finished very soon, goddamnit. She blogs at ZenofWriting.

Payment hasn’t been a criterion for me so far. I’m trying to place my stories where they are welcome, and I do less of that these days than I have been. Subbing anywhere is my least favorite part of writing.

I don’t enter contests, usually. It runs into too much money to do it consistently, so I don’t do it occasionally, either. I might have entered one or two contests, but after that thought, well, I don’t know enough about these magazines or my work isn’t a good enough fit to throw money at a contest. Same with reading fees—although they are usually smaller. I’d avoid magazines that required them. It would add up, even if more slowly.

Matt Baker is a writer. His favorite snack food is a hardboiled egg with Louisiana hot sauce.

I submit primarily to my favorite publications. Payment is not a criterion. I don’t bother with publications that charge a reading fee and I’ve entered a contest once and that was several years ago. I don’t write to win contests. The exception to this would be small press or chapbook contests where you have an opportunity to get a novel or collection of stories published.

Jill Barth lives just outside of Chicago with her husband and three young children in a house built before the Civil War. She is a recent contributor to Boston Literary Magazine and Virtual Writer.

Payment is not a criterion. Not because I wouldn’t love to get paid, but because the reality is, some impressive publications don’t have the means to pay contributors. The money is not important enough to limit my submissions based on the payment.

Contributor’s copies are very nice, however. Again, not a criterion for submitting, but appreciated.

Do I approve of fees? Sure, I don’t see an ethical issue with the practice of charging writers. However, I seldom submit to publications that charge a reading fee, even a nominal one. Again, this is not about the money, but I don’t want to pay someone just to read my work. (I will wash cars, however.) I understand the necessity of the fee, and I do feel that these charges may have a legitimate place in the submission process, but it is not my general practice to pay reading fees. Contests are a bit different as they are a unique part of a publication’s realm and often include a cash prize which must be funded somehow. I would pay up to $15 to enter a contest. OK, I would pay $16…I don’t know what is realistic, but most writers can’t afford much than that!

The publications make their money (if not real money, their notoriety, readership, etc.) from the contributors’ stories. To me, it seems a bit cyclical to charge these folks money just to get a shot at the publication.

Digby Beaumont is based in Brighton on the south coast of England. He worked as a nonfiction author for many years, with numerous publications, and his short fiction work has been widely published in magazines, journals, and anthologies.

Payment is a consideration. Though plenty of excellent publications don’t pay, so it’s not essential. I’d never pay a reading fee, although I might pay a small entry fee for a competition offering financial prizes.

Dave Clapper is the founding editor of SmokeLong Quarterly. He occasionally writes, most recently appearing in FRiGG and forthcoming in Per Contra.

As a writer, I really don’t give a shit if magazines pay me for my work. Because I write primarily flash fiction, I have to accept the fact that I’m not going to make a living from it. Twenty-five bucks here, fifty bucks there… y’know, I’ll take it, but it’s not enough to make a real difference in my life. My priorities are: how many people are going to read it? Is the work going to be well-presented? Do the editors treat me well? All of those are worth far more to me than a few bucks.

As far as reading fees go…do I approve of them? Sure. Money’s gotta come from somewhere (especially in cases where there’s significant prize money involved). It’s not really my place to look askance at how other magazines run their business. Unless the return is clearly uneven. Are they charging $25 for a $100 prize? Come on. But $10 for a $1000 prize? Totally within reason. But really, if a business model seems rational for both the editor and the writers, go for it.

That said, I don’t pay reading fees. Period. I’m uncomfortable with the idea of writers subsidizing other writers. Could the money not come from someplace else? I realize it’s an accepted norm a lot of places, and I know a lot of writers don’t mind the practice. They should have the freedom to enter those contests as they see fit. For me personally, though… I’ll pass. The idea that, on top of the work I’ve put in creating a piece, I also have to pay money for it to be read? It just feels devaluing and gives me the heebie-jeebies.

When working as a stage actor, I never had to pay to audition (and the potential pay there dwarfed these prizes, while the potential audience was smaller). Why should writing be different? Do painters pay galleries to have their work considered? Sculptors? Dancers? Singers? Maybe I’m wrong and some of these disciplines do require fees to be considered, but it seems like literature is the only artistic field where this is the accepted norm. Why?

Clifford Garstang is a fiction writer and student of the art of rejection-slip reading who also ruminates at Perpetual Folly.

I submit to top-tier magazines (using my own ranking method), and for the most part those magazines pay at professional rates, although payment is by no means my primary concern. I know writers who won’t submit to magazines that won’t pay them, but I don’t feel I’m sufficiently established to take that approach yet.

In terms of reading fees, I don’t pay them. There are lots of places to get published without paying a fee; it has an exploitative feel to it. Contest entry fees, on the other hand, are a different story, as long as the price of admission includes something other than just the lottery ticket like a subscription, or at least one issue of the magazine holding the contest. The amount I’m willing pay depends on the prize money, although I no longer consider contests that pay less than $500, and mostly focus on $1000-and-up contests. In that case I’ve paid as much as $15 to enter, keeping in mind that I’ll be getting at least one issue of the magazine in exchange for my fee.

Vanessa Gebbie is a writer, editor and creative writing teacher.

No, I don’t submit only to paying magazines. Being involved in running both an e-zine and a paper magazine myself, I know it’s impossible for many places to pay contributors. And I know too that this does not stop them being good solid writing credits.

I also like supporting start-ups that look well thought out, whose editors come over as serious, and which have a “vision.” A couple of examples: Steel City Review (kudos, Stefani) and a London initiative, Litro, a distributor of single stories on London Underground. I was their inaugural author, and proud of it. Now it’s also distributed in libraries, bookshops, coffee bars. Fantastic places to be read. Pays not a bean. It’s good to support.

Having said that, I do like to get “something” back, now and again, and that’s why I enter competitions such a lot.

Competitions: I pay, happily. So long as a) they are reputable, b) they are being judged by discerning professionals, c) a “place” is a credit worth having and d) the ratio of fee to prize is attractive. The most I’ve paid for a single story entry is e20 at the Fish prize.

Reading fees are another matter. No. I would not consider sending work to place that requires a reading fee.

Steve Hansen has had limited success as a writer, having published stories over the past 10 years at FRiGG, The Danforth Review, The Paumanok Review, and a few other online “reviews.” He currently spends his time and energy trying to meld the worlds of high finance, literature, and comic books at www.tqrstories.com.

I used to submit to any old e-zine, but then I figured I wanted to get paid. So I only sub to paying markets anymore that pay no less than $50.

As far as contests and reading fees, I’m of the mind that if you can get writers to pay you for either of them, you are living my dream. In other words, you’re the man!

Tania Hershman’s short stories have been published in various publications including Cafe Irreal, Front&Centre, Transmission, Riptide, and Brand magazines, and broadcast on BBC Radio 4. Her first short story collection, The White Road and Other Stories, will be published by Salt Publishing in June 2008. Her Web site is www.taniahershman.com.

Until now I haven’t submitted to magazines on the basis of payment, though I have been thrilled when they have offered anything! It is hard for me to get into the headspace of someone paying me for doing something I love, but now that I am a full-time writer, I realize that I must approach this is as a career and try and make some money from it. So now I do look to see if a magazine pays, but there seem to be so few that do that it is not feasible to restrict myself only to paying markets. I don’t believe that whether a magazine pays or not should be a measure of its quality or prestige. It’s the quality of its contents that matters.

I have never submitted to a magazine that charges a reading fee. I feel in my gut that there is something wrong with this. Part of a magazine editor’s role is to read all its submissions and if someone isn’t prepared to do this unless they are paid, then this strikes me as just a money-making scheme.

However, entry fees for competitions are a different matter. I spend a large amount on these, because I know that there is the prize money to be collected, judges to be paid. This strikes me as a fair bargain. I’ve paid up to $30 for a contest fee. I think for me it’s proportional to the prize money. Can’t give an objective sum that I would be prepared to pay.

Joseph Levens has been published in The Florida Review, Other Voices, Swink, AGNI, New Orleans Review, and other publications. He is the editor of The Summerset Review.

I don’t let the payment factor into my decision to submit to a magazine.

On non-contest reading fees, I do not approve, although I can see magazines who accept submissions online stipulating a small fee (three dollars max) to cover printing costs.

On contest reading fees, as long as the prize is at least several hundred dollars, a maximum reasonable fee for a single piece under 8000 words is $15, in my view. I’d go as high as $20 if it included a year’s subscription.

I have been known to live in UtopiaLand, but I think a magazine worth its weight is a labor of love, run by people who truly appreciate literature. At its core, literature is art, not a business. To these people, revenue and pay-out is a secondary concern. Most of the best stories I have read were submitted to places with no reading fee and little or no pay-out.

Gerard C. (Jerry) Smith is a southerner. He’s a writer. He writes novels, short stories, flash fiction, poems. His work can be found in a bunch of different print and cyber zines.

I’ve submitted and have been published by paying and non-paying print rags and e-zines. I, of course, like to be paid but sometimes psychic income is near as good as money. I think it depends on my personal assessment of the quality of the publication.

I once paid for a contest ($10 to Writer’s Digest in 1995) and won a certificate of honor for “Literary Short Story.” But, I actually don’t approve of reading or contest fees. Self-financed publication or contests strike me as counterproductive to the market test of literary worthiness. If there’s a market for the work I think that good. If a publisher gets something by publishing the work I think that good. But I’m not interested in subsidizing either pubs or writers. I’d rather save my gambling bucks for the “March Madness” pool or the Super Bowl.

A while back Carrie Berry (Gator Springs Gazette) had a contest that was open for no fee to writer/subscribers. I thought that unique and entered and was pubbed as a runner up of sorts (no figurative cigar in the form of $s though). I don’t remember if there was a fee for non-subscribers, but there may have been such.

Kelly Spitzer is a writer and an editor with SmokeLong Quarterly.

Earning money for my writing is something that’s been on my mind a lot lately. How do you do it? Is it even feasible? Especially writing fiction. (And short fiction at that.) Why do some genres (mystery, science fiction) regularly pay, but literary fiction doesn’t? How can a journal turn a profit? How does a journal, and literary fiction in general, attract readers? I have so many questions! So if anyone out there knows the answers, please share!!

In general, I would like to be compensated for my writing. Money would be nice. Contributor copies are always welcome. Recently, I’ve been trying to submit more to paying publications, but paying publications aren’t the only publications I will submit to.

I won’t pay reading fees. No way, no how. I don’t normally enter contests, but I will pay a contest fee if the ratio of fee to prize money is reasonable, and entrants receive a copy or subscription of the journal they are supporting. Otherwise, no thank you.

Beth Thomas lives in California with her husband and daughter. She writes a lot and occasionally has things published, most recently in SmokeLong Quarterl and elimae.

At this stage in my writing career (i.e., really, really early), pay is something I’m not actively pursuing. I’m more in the “actively pursuing respectable credits” stage. I think the $$ will come later.

I think contest fees are understandable IF the fee-to-prize ratio is right. A $10 fee for a $1,000 prize is good. A $20 fee for a $100 prize is bad. Of course, a $0 fee for a $1,000 prize is best. I don’t mind shelling out a few bucks to enter a good contest, but if I can save $10, even better. Of course, other things must be considered, like the publication itself, judges, how the winning story will be featured, etc. Sometimes these things can balance out a bad fee-to-prize ratio.

Regarding straight-up reading fees for regular submissions, as in “send us $10 and we’ll read your story,” I don’t understand that. Where does that money go? To the publication? Back to contributors? If my story is not selected, does my $10 go straight into the pocket of my competition? Weird. I don’t submit to those places, as a rule. (I don’t submit to vanity presses either, but at least they print your stuff FOR SURE for that $10. You know?)

Bonnie ZoBell has received an NEA and a PEN Syndicated Fiction Award. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in such print magazines as American Fiction, The Bellingham Review, and The Greensboro Review, and online at FRiGG, juked, and Word Riot. She received an MFA from Columbia and teaches at San Diego Mesa College.

While I absolutely think writers should get paid for what they do and that their work is massively undervalued, ironically money has nothing to do with why I submit to the magazines I do. I care about the quality of the work in the magazines I submit to.

For the most part, I approve of reading fees and entry fees. I understand that literary magazines are basically nonprofit organizations where the editors get paid little or nothing. Every successful literary magazine I’ve ever known succeeds because it’s a labor of love for someone. Therefore, I’m under no misconception that anybody is getting rich off my entry fee.

Contests are lotteries, which writers don’t have to play if they don’t want to. The prize money is usually supplied by the writers themselves with their entry fees. However, some entry fees seem more worthwhile than others and would make paying the fee and paying a higher fee more worthwhile to me. If I get a subscription to a magazine I’d like to read more of anyway, I’ve definitely broken even. Contests at high-quality magazines often mean that the magazine is going to read a lot of unsolicited material at once and will often publish other work besides the winning story. This makes it more worthwhile. Especially if the magazine is going to publish more than just the first-place winning story.

I write entry fees off on my taxes and feel like if the added-up fees contribute to a magazine paying its phone bill, buying a new printer, or editors/readers actually getting paid for all the work they do, the money is well spent.


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